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707 Captain >> 707 Captain >> No more updates?
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Message started by PMSoares on May 27th, 2012 at 2:17pm

Title: Re: No more updates?
Post by LOU on Jun 27th, 2012 at 7:21pm
CoolP:

#5 I've got those two on the bleed air valves. If the air compressors are off, you can pressurize the system for engine starts and things. I'm looking at it as an alternate method to get some pressure into the pneumatic ducts. Does that make sense?

Since the plane has turbo compressors and bleeds it makes it a bit redundant, since they do the same job. The fact that you can use engine bleed air to pressurize the plane is fine but then why have the turbos too? If there are no engines running then the bleed air switch will do nothing to help get the engines started. In the 707 the only way to get the engines started was external air cart or high pressure bottle on number three engine only. Maybe later 707's added an APU, but I never saw that except for Air Force One.

#2 item gets explained here. Alternate low pressure start switch. Seems like this one is used in the case of defective starter cutout switches. They should usually drive the start valves to open and, at some 35% N2, to close. So if they are defective, the start valves won't open and no air will reach the air driven starters. Means no engine start, even with pressure in the system. The alternate start switch forces the start valves to open up and they will only close if the switch is set to off again.

Not a clue here... ??? I stopped flying the 707 by the end of the 70's. It could be some sort of add-on device. The TWA 707 start switches were the same as the 727. The pilot had to hold the start switch open just like the 727. By mashing down on the start switch you would open the start valve and provide ignition so that when the start lever was raised the fuel would light off and the engine would start. The way it worked was like this...

PILOT: Cockpit to ground, pressurize the manifold for start.
MECHANIC: Roger, stand-by. Manifold at 40 P.S.I.
PILOT: Turning #3

What would happen is the F/E would see around 40 psi on his panel and then the PNF would mash the engine start switch. You would first see N2 rotation since that was directly connected to the air starter. At 15% N2 and N1 rotation the PF would raise the start lever and look for FF and light off. When N2 reached 35% and increasing, start switch off and observe duct pressure for pressure increase confirming started cut-out. This was very important that the start valve actually close since if it stayed open the starter would continue to spin and after a short while destroy itself. Not Good!

If no light off in just a few seconds after the start lever is raised, the PF would close the start lever and the PNF would continue to rotate the engine for 30 seconds so as to clear the fuel. Start switch closed. After checking the ignition CB's a second attempt would occur after the engine had spun down. If the start valve would not open and no rotation was observed then a manual opening of the start valve was done. This was great fun since the start valve is physically on the engine and there is a tiny hole in the cowling where the junior mechanic would insert a long screwdriver into the hole and push on a button which would open the start valve. This took a lot of coordination in the inter-phone with the mechanic. The PNF would mash down on the start switch and the PF would tell the junior mechanic to engage the starter. The engine would start to turn and N2 rotation was noted. Here is where it got fun for the junior puke. When 15% of N2 was reached the start lever was raised and the engine would light off. The mechanic was about the middle of the engine cowl and as the fan started to spin the air flow would increase and by the time the mechanic was told to pull the screw driver out of the hole the air flow was pretty strong not to mention LOUD!

I know I've gone a long way around, but for the life of me I have no idea what those 2 switches on the F/E panel really do.

#3 looks like a pressure relief thingy or something. But I couldn't find it in the docs. I'm guessing. If the pressure relief valve of the cabin fails to open while in 'auto', you can force it to open. Would make sense since it can run in 'auto' or 'open'. Cabin pressure dump alternate maybe?

Got me! The 707's I flew did not have anything like that.  :(  Maybe it was like the ground venturi in the 727 which was a small fan that would keep the outflow valves open.

#4 items should consist of the coolant air system controls explained here. The (guarded) RAM air switch and the various switches for the valve positions. But I don't think this affects anything. The manual speaks of drag considerations though.

Since this 707 has ACM's (air cycle machines) the controls on the AUX panel are for opening and closing the inlet and outlet doors much as the 727 had, but again they look like an add-on item since they are off to the side and not on the air conditioning panel.

Lou

 

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