The title says it all.  

I paid nearly $50 for the -100 and the -200 expansion pack...all legal, no cheating.  But I am the one who feels cheated.

What I got was a piece of software that is far from okay, from the moment it boots up, at least where the -200 is concerned.

The continuing sound problems are exasperating.  This is version 2.4.  To still have to load the airplane twice just to get cockpit sounds is inexcusable.  

To have to purchase the 707, so you can get the sound file from it, rename it, transfer it to the 727, is just a clumsy workaround that might be acceptable in a piece of freeware, but not in what is supposed to be a highly refined, commercial package.

Add to that the fact the half the time, the autopilot does not work, will not follow a heading or track a VOR, will not hold an altitude...add to that the fact that half the time the radios will not work, will not respond to attempts to change frequency, and you have the ultimate recipe for frustration.

I have installed it, re-installed it, repaired it, deleted it and cleaned out the registry, re-installed it again, made the flight mods, not made the flight mods, tried the 707 fix (which seemed to work for a while but does not), not made the 707 fix....nothing solves the bugginess of this aircraft.  

Most recently, after using the installer to perform a "repair," any attempt to try and perform a second load of the aircraft to get cockpit sounds now causes a CTD.  

In truth, I have spent more time trying to fix this bird than I have flying it.  It is maddening.

The fact is, I bought this package because I really like the 727, and when it is working, it's a pleasure to fly...but the times it is working are too few and far between and I've pretty much had it.

I've been through the "knowledge base" hoping to find solutions.  I've been through the forums hoping to find solutions, but all I find are similarly frustrated users, and overly sensitive moderators.

Our frustration is real!  It appears you have released a product that is not truly ready for market.  I bought this product believing it to be plug and play, not a do-it-yourself kit.  

Perhaps the folks at Captain Sim might want to finish the products they have already sold before they start on anything new.  The promise of a someday version 2.5 is something less than satisfying.

I would like a definitive answer as to when you might fix this bird once and for all before I simply ask for a refund.

Thanks in advance.

Justin Friedland

Justin, sorry to hear that she is not working at your end.

Some things to mention.
1) The workaround with the 707 sound gauge is a thing done and described by me, another user of the 727 and in no way related to CS. The current official workaround is to load the plane twice, no sound gauge change needed or even recommended officially.
The sound gauge itself is a known bug, that's true.

2) All your other described things (radios not working, AP not working, VOR tracking not working) aren't known general problems and don't happen at my end for example. 2.4 works out of the box regarding those items. If something prevents the operation there, one has to investigate further.

3) but all I find are similarly frustrated users, and overly sensitive moderators.
Don't count me or others in there. We've listed known bugs on the plane, but don't encounter the things stated in 2) here, so don't generalize things which can't be broken down to 'it doesn't work at all', please.  :)
If you've found other users with problems, please go ahead and describe setups and settings as detailed as you can to allow some sort of investigation.
Reading about CTDs and stuff points to a corrupt installation or even a flawed basis, FSX. I can't recall CTDs being a general problem with any CS bird.


We can talk about bugs, solutions, workarounds and many other things, but rendering system or user based problems to a general flaw won't help, rants don't do too.
I know it can be disappointing to have a non working plane, but constructive work on problems looks different in my eyes.

As far as I know, the CS planes aren't refundable.

Justin,

I have only the 727-100 and can tell you the plane works fine as far as the autopilot (it holds heading & altitude and tracks the VOR and does an ILS just fine if you don't rush the approach). My sounds work, (and I never load it twice) with the exception of the "Dont Sink" which is a takeoff warning and which I just renamed the file so it does not sound. There are known problems with the pressurization panel and fuel dump and a few other minor bugs. Even with some of these problems I find the plane to be very much like the real 727 that I flew for thousands of hours.

We all know it is frustrating to put out a bunch of cash and find that the item is not working as you thought it should. I have many other add-on planes from high end companies that don't do everything as advertised. One of the problems as I see it is the fact that FSX is itself a buggy program and there are so many different types of processors and computers that might do things a little different from another computer that it becomes very difficult to make a bug free product.

I have found Captain Sim eager to respond to its customers in a positive way and try to fix problems that are addressed in this forum. Yes, it has been a wait for us to see some of the know bugs fixed, but I still enjoy flying their planes even though some of the items listed in past forum topics still need to be fixed.

I urge you to work through this forum with folks like CoolP & MARKOZ and many others who will attempt to get you some enjoyable flying in the 727.

Lou

To still have to load the airplane twice just to get cockpit sounds is inexcusable.
This is a bug in 2.4. It was definitely not present in v2.2 or v2.3.

A possible solution: You could try downloading the installer again (Check-in to Your Profile > Select product (727-100 Base Pack) > Extended Download Service > Get New Links) and try installing it again from that. Your current csp721_2400.exe might be corrupt. That happened to me once.

Hope this helps.

Mark

Lou:
You write: My sounds work, (and I never load it twice)?
Are you running 2.4?

Quote:

We've listed known bugs on the plane, but don't encounter the things stated in 2) here, so don't generalize things which can't be broken down to 'it doesn't work at all', please.   If you've found other users with problems, please go ahead and describe setups and settings as detailed as you can to allow some sort of investigation.

I know... I've spent countless hours reading and rereading the forums for solutions...but "listing" known bugs on a piece of software is not the same things as "fixing" known bugs on a piece of software.  

From your Website Sale Page
Quote:

• Unparalleled visual quality and realism • Designed according to FSX standards • Realistic Flight Model • ACE - Aircraft Configuration Editor • Authentic Sound Set • Exclusive visual Effects • Extensive Manuals

Nowhere on that page does it say "but you'll have to load the aircraft twice in order to get those Authentic sounds," or "you'll have to read the forums and make changes to the .cfg file to get the real 'realistic flight model'...so what you have is false advertising.

And let me say that I am not new to simming, nor to computers, nor am I a chronic complainer....but after owning products from another company which perform as advertised every time, and V-R--S which perform as advertised every time, or Carenado, which perform as advertised every time...I find the performance of Captain Sim in this instance uniquely deficient.

I run Windows XP Pro on an AMD Athlon 64x2 5600+ 2.8 Ghz Dual Core Processor with 4 GB of Ram, the ASUS M2N32-SLI Deluxe Mobo, and the NVIDIA GTX460 graphics card with 1 GB of video memory.

I have FS 2004 and FSX-Acceleration installed.  Both are stable for every other aircraft I own, except this one.  I'll even go so far as to say that other Captain Sim titles work fine, since I own the C130 and expansion pack, and the 707 Captain and expansion pack...but this aircraft just frustrates me and needs to be fixed so that it performs in line with its sales pitch.

If you have some magic juju that will get this aircraft functioning, I'd love to hear it.

Justin, I wonder what intention your thread has.
Is it just simple blaming and ranting or does it have a constructive nature, with you being interested in actually finding the cause of some errors?

If you have legal concerns regarding some advertising or if you still believe that your user/system based stuff (radios, AP, VOR tracking, to name a few) suddenly turn into general flaws, please go ahead by taking the necessary steps.
If you're really interested into a solution though, I would at least try to follow some advices and give some detailed feedback.  :)

The intention is to get the folks at Captain Sim to fix their product so that it performs as advertised.

I have no intention of wasting my time (or yours) with legal nonsense.  This is more a simple ethical question between a provider and its customers and it is the marketplace that will pass judgement.  

As to "blaming or ranting," it is not ranting to ask that a company deliver a properly performing product without requiring heroics on the part of the consumer.

If I were a beta tester, and if this were advertised as a beta product, then I "would be interested in actually finding the cause of some errors."  

But, since I am a paying customer, purchasing a product sold as being completely ready for market, I am not interested in spending more time fixing a product than actually using it...which has been the case.  I simply want it to work as advertised.

I have given you detailed feedback.  I have already told you that I have done a complete uninstall, down to the registry level.  I have told you that I have performed a clean reinstall.  I have given you the details of my system.  I have told you the problems that have manifested.  I have told you that I have used the information in your forums to try and address these problems with little or temporary or no success.  

Yes, during a flight, the radios sometimes freeze and do not allow me to change frequencies, even while the transponder does.

Yes, during a flight, the autopilot sometimes simply quits and refuses to function, even while all the switches continue to animate and give the appearance of working.

Yes, trying to get all the sounds associated with this aircraft to actually play is and has been a known problem for some time.

Again, to be perfectly clear, my intention with this thread is to try and prompt Captain Sim to  fix their product so that it performs as advertised.  That's it.  
 

Justin, I will be as clear as you are.  :)
If you have trouble with her on your system while I have not on mine, what exactly do you expect as company response?
The known general bugs are listed and noted for 2.5, but you are describing a ton of things only happening at your end in case you didn't notice so far. Other users in this thread already stated that they don't experience AP, VOR, radio troubles for example.

How can we or CS possibly fix those personal things for you? I don't know, sorry.  :-/

You know, I'm really not looking for a fight.  I'm just a consumer with a product that I require help with in order to get it to function as advertised.  

In a forum that has 25 pages of threads with titles like "Audio Problems"  "Autopilot Problems" "NAV problems" and the like, I  find that my problems are hardly unique.  

That it might be possible to keep the bird flying by constantly reinstalling it isn't much of a solution, and not one that I have to use with any other add-on aircraft.

If you work for the company... instead of getting self-righteous, it might be more useful to finish service pack 2.5.

If you don't work for the company, and find my problems with the software bothersome, simply ignore the post and let me hope that someone with possible solutions will respond. ;)

Thanks

Other users like me actually can't do more than politely remind you about the fact that the first view towards your demanded solution on the user made problems has to take place .. at your very end, Justin.
Writing in offensive tones now only stressed that need in my eyes.

Feel free to make use of the various threads you've seemed to have spotted. They are open for your detailed input.  :)

Bernardo,

I am running version 2.4 and have never had trouble with the sounds - with the exception of the already mentioned "Don't Sink" sound which is not correct when landing - only a takeoff warning. My solution was to rename the file so it would not play. I have engine sounds both inside and outside, normal switch sounds and gear sound as well as stick shaker etc. If there are other sounds like cabin announcements, I don't use them.

Lou

Justin Friedland wrote on Jul 24^th, 2011 at 2:28pm:

The intention is to get the folks at Captain Sim to fix their product so that it performs as advertised.

All known and confirmed issues are listed in the Knowledge Base, we are working on them. Concerning other issues - as you may see from other posts here, the vast majority of people (including real world 727 pilots) do not experience them hence the conclusion - the issues are most likely at your end. Please check other forum threads for possible solutions and feel free to comment there. We are sorry you experience those difficulties.

Thank you all for support. The topic is now locked.