Hi all

When i run FSX and load presaved flight B727 cold and dark and run all systems elec,pack,fuel,apu,engines so the aircraft is ok to take-off but no clear to takeoff due the radios nav/comm and autopilot no have energy you know, no fuction i dont find the ON BUTTON, any sugestion?
tks all

Efrén

Seems like "master avionics" is switched off.
Assign a keystroke to it in FSX settings and you'll be fine.

And where the real 727 pilots assign this button...?
I very much like CS 727 product but i believe there should be no such gaps on "PRO" products like this. I guess avionics are available as soon as you start battery / source power and this should be reflected.

KrisJ wrote on Jan 11^th, 2010 at 9:01pm:

And where the real 727 pilots assign this button...? I very much like CS 727 product but i believe there should be no such gaps on "PRO" products like this. I guess avionics are available as soon as you start battery / source power and this should be reflected.

this is an FSX limitation, not the fault of CS. Many third party add-ons have this, ranging from CS to the little pipers by Carenado (excuse me for using the name of another dev here)... If the presaved flight was made using the default Cessna, and turning everything off, you'll encounter this problem with any aircraft that doesn't have a master avionics switch.
And these are many, as most only have the battery switch.

   Need help . . . I have FSX Acceleration and can not get FDC to come alive.  There is a issue from when I start the 727 to take-off that the FDC turns off or does not want to turn "Autopilot Mode Selector".  Prior to taxing, I can get the AMS to turn, but once lined up with the run-way, it turns off and I can not get it back on.  I have tried assigning "Aviation master switch", but no luck

Today I tried different airport since the others where payware.  I set NAV 1 and got a reading on one VOR 36 miles out and I had Autopilot function along with GPS was working, but once I took-off and into 1 minute of flight, all nav turned-off including GPS.  I started all over again, started the 727-200 and everything was working again, but this time I just sat there with engines running and with in 3 minutes all nav turned off again.

 What is causing this?

Hi Howell.

I think you need to add the electric_always_available=1 line to the aircraft.cfg under [electrical]. Like this:

[electrical]
electric_always_available=1
max_battery_voltage = 24.0
generator_alternator_voltage = 30.0
max_generator_alternator_amps = 400.0

Make sure to back up the original aircraft.cfg first

Hope this helps.

Mark

Markoz,

 Tried your edit and it works great . . . thanks for your help, I can finally fly this great looking bird.  Is this a know issue or this just happening with me?  ;D

I would class it as a known issue. Lots of others have it too. Including me.

The [electrical] segment that I put in my post is a copy from my aircraft.cfg so I don't lose power after a few minutes.

Mark

Battery switch located on FE panel. From left top corner after  DC Volt and Amps gauges. Theres is DC Meter switch and Master Battery Switch  is the second one. Click the cover and click the switch. You are ready to go.... ;) ;)
Sanal

I hate to break your heart asanal, but that is the first switch that is turned on . . . . kind of need it to turn APU on! :-?

Howell,

Every think I have learn, about procedure has been through trial and error.  

If you need to start APU, you must turn on aircraft Master Battery Switch on.

I suggest open your  FSX Free Flight Screen "Load " and go to "Cold -n- Dark start at KSEA.
Now your airplane at KSEA airport  and all powers shot down.

Before touch any thing go to APU and click APU start switch. APU will not start. Because you need to open  Aircraft Battery Switch on.

Now plug in External Power you will see some light will be on in FE panel. Go to APU turn on APU starter Switch. Nothing will happen.Because "Battery Switch" still OFF. Turn switch on... :D
Have a nice fly... ;D ;D

Hi Sanal.

The problem here is not about turning the Master Battery Switch ON, but that the battery loses all power after a few minutes.

There was nothing worse than taking off and, after a short while, all of a sudden the Avionics would stop functioning. That is why myself and many others have added the electric_always_available=1 line into the aircraft.cfg. Adding that line means that the battery is always full (or at least something like that) and we don't lose our Avionics because of it.

Howell also stated that adding that line to the aircraft.cfg fixed his problem.

I'm hoping I have made this more clear for you. ;)

Mark

Mark,
Thanks for your clarifying the issue.  if you have delayed engine start, to save the  battaries ,APU should be use.
electric_always_available=1 , Then you don't need APU.

Good way to eliminete the possible problems. :)
Sanal

Why it happens only to some users? It does not happen to me (cross fingers).

asanal wrote on Jan 24^th, 2010 at 6:46am:

if you have delayed engine start, to save the  battaries ,APU should be use. electric_always_available=1 , Then you don't need APU.

The reason I added that line to the aircraft.cfg was because I my avionics would turn off after a few minutes of flight. I did read the manual(s) and after closely following the checklists provided in them, I still lost power to my avionics. I even wrote them into a text document so I could follow them using the kneeboard.  This happened regardless of any dials or knobs settings that are supposed to provide the power to the aircraft. My avionics would turn off anyway. So I added that line and solved the problem.

Although I have added that line into my aircraft.cfg, I still need to use the APU to start the engines (unless I use FSX default CTRL+E).


Mark

do people get power outage when they start from cold and dark or does it happen even when u start with engines on? the reason i ask is if it only happens when u start from cold and dark then there must be something missing due to fsx limitations in which case for people who prefer to start the engines themselves, after the start (after conforming to reality) maybe they can just press ctrl E and see if the electrical juice still goes out or stays on. i personally have not had this problem, but then again i haven't started the thing myself yet. just the 757 and 767 and they work fine even from CaD.

Mark,
WE all have the same 727-100X. I assume  we should have same problems, unless our Pc configuration contributing the problem. I can start engines with battery power with out any problem. I can click on EP
and can start the engine and APU.

In mean time I cannot use AP GS, because it is not capturing signal and tracking. Why, I have no idea.

Do we have all same Aircraft and Panel.cfg files? Or some add-ons are influencing each other. I am sure yes. I have FSCaptain I cannot use it if I activate FSCrew with MD11X and LDSX.

In RW you should be  able use your batteries at least 30 minutes or more.I assume SIMworld should be like that also. In your case , you are loosing battery power rapidly. Is it possible in your Aircraft.cfg file battery power numbers is lesser then should be?

Or mine GS intercept Aircraft.Cfg file suppose to be 1 or 2  instead of 0.

I think, we should start to check if Aircraft.cfg files numbers are some reason cahged or not.
In My case CS support said, all people who does not  have FSX Acceleration on their system are experiencing AP and Cabin Sound problems after the SP 2.3 installation.
Do you have FSX Acceleration??
Regards
Sanal

Hi Sanal.

Good reply and so on track with a lot of what you say. Why do some things work for some and not others? I believe it to be something in our setup of FSX or some addon that causes strange things, just like you said.

A good example. With the 727-100X I can use the AP GS most times but, by no means, all the time. I don't really know why. Does it have to do with how lined up on the localizer I am before engaging it? I don't know for sure and that's why it doesn't work 100% of the time.

One final thing is this. I have never tried to start the 727 without using the APU as I assumed that it would be needed to start it. Just like the Captain Sim 757 and 767. And I haven't actually timed how long the battery lasts before it runs out of power, but it certainly doesn't seem to be very long.

Mark

I'll add my experience to this.  With the 727-100 I could use the LOC setting to intercept the localizer and the Auto GS to capture the glide slope. After 2.3 I tried various intercept altitudes and angles but the Auto GS function would not work.  I have FSX SP2 but not Acceleration.

I have the same problem with the power cutting out after flying for a little while. I was going to post about it, and then discovered this thread.

So.... I copied and pasted the "electric_always_available=1", it seems to have made no difference. Did two flights in the last two days and the power cut out both times shortly after take-off. Does this fix work for everybody? Only after running the APU did I have power on again. Basically I have to run the APU all the time if I want to use my GPS (which I do).

Also shouldn't the fuel load change after running the APU for a length of time on the ground? Thanks.

Wigwag123 wrote on Mar 6^th, 2010 at 11:17pm:

I have the same problem with the power cutting out after flying for a little while. I was going to post about it, and then discovered this thread. So.... I copied and pasted the "electric_always_available=1", it seems to have made no difference. Did two flights in the last two days and the power cut out both times shortly after take-off. Does this fix work for everybody? Only after running the APU did I have power on again. Basically I have to run the APU all the time if I want to use my GPS (which I do). Also shouldn't the fuel load change after running the APU for a length of time on the ground? Thanks.

It works great for me. Are you sure you have entered the fix into the correct section of the aircraf.cfg?

[electrical]
electric_always_available = 1
max_battery_voltage = 24.0
generator_alternator_voltage = 30.0
max_generator_alternator_amps = 400.0

I always turn the APU off after I have started the engines. And as for the APU using fuel when being used. I believe it should, but I find that it doesn't seem to use any at all, no matter how long I use it for.

Note: I can't start the engines without the APU unless I use CTRL+E.

Mark

Markoz wrote on Mar 7^th, 2010 at 1:59am:

Wigwag123 wrote on Mar 6th, 2010 at 11:17pm: I have the same problem with the power cutting out after flying for a little while. I was going to post about it, and then discovered this thread. So.... I copied and pasted the "electric_always_available=1", it seems to have made no difference. Did two flights in the last two days and the power cut out both times shortly after take-off. Does this fix work for everybody? Only after running the APU did I have power on again. Basically I have to run the APU all the time if I want to use my GPS (which I do). Also shouldn't the fuel load change after running the APU for a length of time on the ground? Thanks. It works great for me. Are you sure you have entered the fix into the correct section of the aircraf.cfg? [electrical] electric_always_available = 1 max_battery_voltage = 24.0 generator_alternator_voltage = 30.0 max_generator_alternator_amps = 400.0 I always turn the APU off after I have started the engines. And as for the APU using fuel when being used. I believe it should, but I find that it doesn't seem to use any at all, no matter how long I use it for. Note: I can't start the engines without the APU unless I use CTRL+E. Mark

I double checked all 4 aircraft cfg files I have (2 for each 100 & 200) and yes I did put them in as you outlined. For the hec of it I double checked again and timed it just sitting on the tarmac at 11 minutes my GPS shut off. Hit the battery switch again , and the avions switch again and still no GPS.

If it matters here is what I do. I turn on the master battery switch on from the top of the flight engineer's panel, then my avionics switch on my keyboard and the GPS comes on. If I don't hit the master battery first the GPS won't come on when I hit the avionics switch. So I think that part is working like it should, it's just that I lose power to the GPS unless I run the APU the whole time.  Strange hey?

I too can't start the engines without the APU on. I appreciate you trying to help Mark.  

I've been doing a test on mine right now and after 46+ minutes I still have power to my avionics. All I did was load the 727 into FSX, turned on the Battery Switch and left it sitting there while I played Solitaire. As I am about to submit this message I still have power to the avionics.

Mark

Edit. It has now been 1 hour and the avionics are still working.

Markoz wrote on Mar 7^th, 2010 at 10:10am:

I've been doing a test on mine right now and after 46+ minutes I still have power to my avionics. All I did was load the 727 into FSX, turned on the Battery Switch and left it sitting there while I played Solitaire. As I am about to submit this message I still have power to the avionics. Mark Edit. It has now been 1 hour and the avionics are still working.

Can you please confirm this for me just so I know an easy way to check while I am trying to figure out my problem.

I assume this is what should happen after adding the electric always available line in the A/C cfg file. When you load up a cold and dark flight in the727, then go to the 2D screen and hit the GPS button (WITHOUT hitting the barttery main toggle first) that the GPS should be on. By this I mean you don't have to turn it on as electricity is always available.

For the hec of it I will remove that line from the cfg, save it and then add it again and save it just to see what happens. Thanks.

I changed the line electric_always_available=1 to electric_always_available=0 and started the 727-100 Cold-n-Dark (KSEA). When I pressed Shift+6 to open the GPS panel, the GPS was off. Once I turned the battery switch ON, the GPS came on with it.

I also did a test with the battery switch on and the GPS on. After about 11 minutes, the GPS went off. So adding the electric_always_available=1 to mine is working for me.

Mark

Markoz wrote on Mar 8^th, 2010 at 1:56am:

I changed the line electric_always_available=1 to electric_always_available=0 and started the 727-100 Cold-n-Dark (KSEA). When I pressed Shift+6 to open the GPS panel, the GPS was off. Once I turned the battery switch ON, the GPS came on with it. I also did a test with the battery switch on and the GPS on. After about 11 minutes, the GPS went off. So adding the electric_always_available=1 to mine is working for me. Mark

Thanks for checking that out for me Mark, I appreciate your time and trying to help out. For whatever reason it just don't work for me. I took the electric line out of the cfg and typed it back in but still the same problem.  

I guess I will run my APU all the time, good thing APU fuel consumption doesn't appear to be simulated. ;-)

I have done another test and got a pleasant surprise. I still have the electric_always_available=0 setting in the aircraft.cfg. I will remove it completely from the aircraft.cfg to try a couple of things that will become clear through reading this post.

I exited and then restarted FSX and from Free Flight selected Load then 727-100 Cold-n-Dark (KSEA) and clicked Fly Now.

I left the plane sitting there for a while with the GPS displayed and ON with the Battery Switch OFF. Again after about 11 minutes the GPS went OFF. I turned the Master Battery Switch ON and the GPS came on too. I then decided to do a flight from KSEA to KIAD, so I started the APU and then the engines. After starting the engines, I moved both the AC Meters Selector from APU to GEN 2, the Essential Power Selector from APU to GEN 2 and the DC Meters Selector from BAT to ESS TR and after more than one (1) hour I have not lost any power to any avionics instruments. Have I found a solution other than having the electric_always_available=1?

The other thing that surprised me was that ALL the sounds (cockpit announcements and "dings" for other switches) worked without having to reload the 727. After my current flight, which still has 3 hours to go, I will do a whole computer restart and see if this works again or if I just got lucky this one time. Sorry, but I hate not completing a flight I have started.

Mark

EDIT. It is now some 2 hours since I posted this. I never finished my flight as my FSX went to a completely black screen where I couldn't see anything anymore, so there was no hope of landing. It does this every now and then for some strange reason.

I exited FSX and rebooted my computer. I did all the same things to start my flight in the 727. The sounds were NOT working, so no fix there!

As for what I did to start the 727. I followed the same as I did before. I did remove the electric_always_available=1. It is not there anymore, not even electric_always_available=0 is there. I'm doing a flight from KSEA to KSFO. I am flying at FL300 315 KIAS with 388nm to go and I still have avionics power after far more than 11 minutes since the start.  So my guess is that the power solution seems to be where I set those knobs that I mentioned.

Well fellow pilots, I am at a complete loss.

I shut down my computer last night and went to bed. This morning I started it up, and immediately started FSX and the 727-100 Cold-n-Dark (KSEA). I moved the plane to YMML on RWY16. I decided to do a short flight which involved nothing more that a large circuit around the Melbourne International airport.

I did everything EXACTLY the same as I did yesterday and I couldn't believe it, I lost avionics power after 11 minutes. I don't know why it was working great yesterday with no loss of avionics power, and today, I lost it. Obviously there must be something wrong.

I'm thinking I might try and do a flight from KSEA to KSFO like yesterday. Maybe the avionics only like to work close to home (Boeing Field (KBFI)). So because of this I will put back my electric_always_available=1 to fix it for me.

Sorry guys (and gals), but I have to believe that yesterday I just got lucky.  :'(

Mark

Markoz,

I've experienced this problem with both the 727 and C-130. In my experience the key difference is that while you'll never lose electric power if you sit in one place in the tarmac, as soon as the plane starts moving on the ground the countdown to power loss starts (in the case of a long taxi you can lose power before getting to the runway). Hitting ctl-E works with the C-130--maybe try that with the 727 as well?

This is a pretty serious problem and it's a shame that CS seems not to know how to fix it.  :(

As you can see by Lou's post that I have quoted below. He hasn't added the electric_always_available=1 line into his 727 aircarft.cfg file. He goes on to explain how he starts the 727 which could hold the key to the loss of avionics power after 11 minutes.

I hope to have the answer in a few days.


LOU wrote on Mar 9^th, 2010 at 4:23am:

Some questions for you. If you don't mind. 1. Have you have added the electric_always_available=1 to you aircraft.cfg? 2. If you haven't added that line, are you having trouble with loss of avionics power? 3. If you haven't added that line AND you aren't having that problem, could you please guide us through what you do from a Cold-n-Dark cockpit to the knob/button settings for maintaining power? Markoz, I have not added anything to the .cfg file and as long as I keep the engines running I have no problem with loss of power. Let's see if I can remember all the steps to get the old bird fired up from the cold.... 1. Cockpit safety check. Hyd pump switches off, gear, gear doors and flaps handles agree - you don't want anything moving until clear. 2. Battery ON - check voltage 3. Fire test APU then start up APU.    Check volts and freqs of APU and close AGR to connect to aircraft busses. Essential power to APU    Note: I do not find a master avionics switch on the pilots overhead??? I wonder how the radios are turned on??? 4. On F/E panel make sure all bleed valves are open - packs off - to get engine start air. Manifold pressure around 40 psi.    If you're not starting engines at this time, turn on packs for air temp control in plane. 5. When clear by ground - HYD B pumps on. Make sure brakes are parked or chocked. 6. Load fuel to desired level. 7. Turn off packs to start engines. 8. As each engine is started, F/E checks engine gen volts and freq [ 115 volts & 400 cycles ]    Select Essential Power to engine one and close MGR to change over power from APU. Do same with each engine. 9. After engine start, turn on A/C packs. That should get you started... :D The more I play with the CS-727 the more fun I have! It's pretty good indeed. If you could have seen the multi-million dollar simulator we had in the 60's you would laugh. Now, today, the simulators we train in are super, but back then the CS-727 would have been heaven. I wish I would have kept my old 727 books. Lou

As for the C-130, I don't lose avionics there.I think this comes down to he fact that Captain Sim added the electric_always_available=1 line to the [Electrical] portion of the aircraft.cfg.

Mark

I believe that is the start up procedure I use, but I will check my notes later when I get a chance. One question about step 8, when he says "and close MGR to change over power from APU", where/what is that, I don't recall? What is MGR? Thanks.

Yeah. I'm not surprised because I had that problem too!
Lou has explained it HERE using a picture.

By following what he has shown me, I'm no longer losing avionics power. Well at least for today! I had better cross my fingers or tomorrow it'll be gone again. LOL

Mark

Markoz wrote on Mar 11^th, 2010 at 12:45pm:

Yeah. I'm not surprised because I had that problem too! Lou has explained it HERE using a picture. By following what he has shown me, I'm no longer losing avionics power. Well at least for today! I had better cross my fingers or tomorrow it'll be gone again. LOL Mark

Thanks for the link Mark. I have been toggling the MGR switches as described and thus starting and running my 727's correctly. My power loss problems still exists as usual. Putting in the electrical line in the aircraft CFG makes no difference whatsoever.

I have tried removing that line and putting it back in, and tried all 4 variations of the 727. In all honesty I am frusterated and disappointed. I have too many aircraft to count and these 727 are the only ones with this problem. Anyway life is too short to waste time on this anymore, but I really appreciate you trying to help me out.  

Was there ever a startup procedure found that stopped this loss of elec power after time?

I know we can put in that electric=1 line, just wondering if a better more proper work around was found.

VeryBumpy wrote on Oct 4^th, 2013 at 7:57pm:

Was there ever a startup procedure found that stopped this loss of elec power after time? I know we can put in that electric=1 line, just wondering if a better more proper work around was found.

The short one that Lou gave here: http://captainsim.org/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1267897624/15#15.
I'm pretty sure that since following that checklist, or something very close to that, I haven't had a loss of avionics power again.

I could go through the my own checklist that I use on the CS 727, from memory, which I believe is close to Lou's. :o
I should write it down in here so others can use it. :)